Talk:Tartarus Debris Field
Could somebody confirm on the easter eggs? The Pillar of Autumn doesn't have much in the way of sulloette - just a big chunk of armor built around engines and a mass accelerator cannon, and there's lotta debris in there that looks like it. 16:27, April 30, 2010 (UTC) :The Pillar of Autumn doesn't have much of a silhouette? Please! Maybe if the "big chunk of armor" had about 4 or 5 different sized sections attached together. If you actually look at the ship you'll see it's far more than a "big chunk of armor built around engines and a mass accelerator cannon". It's silhouette would be fairly distinctive. SpartHawg948 17:57, April 30, 2010 (UTC) : : Some images of the debris field would be nice. EpicMailMan talk 21:28, June 20, 2010 (UTC) Indeed. It'd be really nice to get pics of these purported 'easter egg' pieces, but you are correct, anything would be nice. SpartHawg948 21:33, June 20, 2010 (UTC) I've scanned through all the videos and this is the ship most reminiscent of the Pillar of Autumn. The video is called EndGm1_ArrivalEXT_Part4.bik Freakium 23:27, June 20, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, I can see it. How 'bout that. SpartHawg948 23:31, June 20, 2010 (UTC) ::Hmm. Yeah they do look similar. Seems like a stretch to me, but I won't rain on anyone's parade for seeing it. Should the image be added to the article next to the relevant piece of trivia, or will it suffice in the talk page? Dammej 23:37, June 20, 2010 (UTC) Well, being Mr 'Err on the side of caution', I'd be inclined to suggest leaving it here. After all, the PoA is highlighted, but the trivia does mention that people have noticed several easter egg ships, and I'm slightly concerned that people may start adding shots of every little piece that looks like something. SpartHawg948 23:51, June 20, 2010 (UTC) that looks nothing like the Pillar... the antennae comming off the large chunk shouldn't be there, and even if they were they would be at the front of the ship, not the engines. The profile is completely off... and it highly unlikely that Bioware would include Bungie material ingame.. I think its a big stretch and should be removed from the article. ProphetofTruth 16:06, June 22, 2010 (UTC) : I'm not a big Halo player, and I had to look up the Pillar of Autumn ... and yeah, I have to agree, it's spurious at best. PhoenixBlue 16:13, June 22, 2010 (UTC) : : I learned my FPS through Halo and I was happy when I saw that thing in the video. I do agree though that when I really analyze the thing, it's off by a lot. I have a feeling it is supposed to be the Pillar of Autumn but whoever was drawing it in did it only for fun, without really looking at the actual model. Doesn't much matter though. I grinned for half a second and that's enough for me. Freakium 17:31, June 22, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, I mean, the article doesn't say that there is a chunk that looks like the PoA, just that some people think they've seen one. Still and all, if people think it's bunk (which they seem to do), we could just remove that trivia bit, as the picture on this page has really been the only 'evidence' to back the claim. SpartHawg948 17:33, June 22, 2010 (UTC) :::I have seen that chunk as well, and while it may look like ht PoA, I still think it is a hunk of metal. For all we know, there could be a Star Destroyer and a Mon Cal Cruiser in there. I was thinking of rewording the trivia to remove the PoA bit, but I think BioWare put several ships in there and you have to look closely to see them. I do think the trivia should stay, but with the PoA bit removed. Lancer1289 18:04, June 22, 2010 (UTC) :::I saw many times the videos and the debri field is mostly (at least 99%) full of quarian-like ship parts. SoulRipper 13:11, August 29, 2010 (UTC) Quarian ship(s) in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_XTMzcLWt8&feature=related, at 2:58, 3.02, 3:33 you can see quarian ships. :See the trivia section of the article. Most likely that is just reused ship models for the massive field. Lancer1289 17:27, August 18, 2010 (UTC) :Of course they did. But they did it cleverly. They didn't put ship there what would make you say "How the hell this got here?. Quarian ships are understandable: they expected a better life beyond the Omega 4 relay. Bioware is the best in game-making. ::Indeed. Lancer1289 19:30, August 18, 2010 (UTC) tartarus This probably isnt but is it posible tartarus is a reference to a brute from halo 2. Another halo reference maybe.Legionwrex 22:21, August 18, 2010 (UTC) :And that is just name trivia as that is all they share, the name. There is nothing else that is similar. Lancer1289 22:22, August 18, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, if it's a possible reference, there will be something other than just the name to recommend it. Is there? SpartHawg948 22:24, August 18, 2010 (UTC) :::I don't see anything but the name. Considering one is a debris field and the other was the leader of a species and an important member of an organization. The debris field is neither, so it appears taht all they share is the name. And Tartarus is somewhat common. Lancer1289 22:28, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure Tartarus refers to the region of the Ancient Greek underworld where the Titans,and monsters of the world were sealed away in eternal torment. Fitting that the Protheans, once broken and converted into monsters, are based in a hellish debris field on the cusp of a black hole. Also, WTH would Bioware connect a field of dead starships with a Bungie Brute. Its illogical. ProphetofTruth 21:55, August 27, 2010 (UTC) : Its obvious that is named after the tartarus in greek mythology. The titans were a kind that came from the union of gaia and uranus (humans and the ones who came from the sky) and after the war the gods (Zeus, Apollo etc) and titans had, they where placed/closed in tartarus, a hell-like place beneath the underworld. The collectors were "created" from the reapers and the protheans after the war they had (with the protheans) and they were placed at the center of the galaxy. So there are some similarities betwin the two stories. The only thing that changes is that to the titans the war was after the creation and to the collectors the war was before the creation. : Also talking about protheans, the word prothean I think comes from PRO-me-THEAN (from Prometheus). Prometheus except the fire, gave knowledge to humans. Protheans did the same to the hanar and propably to all advanced races. SoulRipper 08:34, August 28, 2010 (UTC) ::Well, the hanar claim the Protheans uplifted them. There is no evidence to suggest this though. As for the rest, if all the other advanced races had reached the stars within a relatively short or uniform period, I'd maybe buy into it, but this is not the case. Given the gaps (sometimes vast gulfs) occurring in between the appearances of advanced races, and given the fact that the Protheans disappeared entirely from the galaxy (well, entirely not counting the bastardized Protheans known as Collectors) 50,000 years prior to the in-universe present day, I don't really think the 'uplifting all advanced races' thing has legs. It's more likely that most species advanced on their own until stumbling across Prothean technology that they then figured out how to use, jump-starting their technology (like humanity), with some few (like the hanar) actually having access to Prothean technology on their own world. You have to figure, the Reapers would have known about the Protheans on Kahje, thanks to the Citadel records. And if the hanar (or proto-hanar or whatever) had been advanced enough for the Protheans to advance or uplift, then they would more than likely also have been wiped out, wouldn't they? It's an interesting theory, and there may be something to the name idea, but the 'advancement' part is a bit less believable. SpartHawg948 09:24, August 28, 2010 (UTC) ::I dont mean advancement or uplift like the salarians did to krogans. What I mean its just a little push to the evolution, you know, the lost link betwin "monkeys" and humans or something like that. When the hanar talk about protheans giving them the abillity to speak, that may mean that the protheans may push a bit the evolution of the hanar so the hanar passed (in an amount of generations) from primitive communication to actual speech and use of language.The protheans were closely observing humans and even implanted microchips or something like that. They may have push also humans to evolve a bit more faster. That may have happened also with the other races. And dont forget that humans passed a nearly 1000 years Dark Age (thanks to christianity and religion in general), when everyone who new something was a wizard or a whitch and they got burned. When asari was discovering the Citadel, humans were fighting for pandespani. Industrial revolution that happend at the 18th century may have happend around 14th or 15th century. It only took 250 years after the industrial revolution to get a rocket to space. That means that humans may have been in space somewere in the middle 17th century along with asari (theoretically speaking always). Just my thoughts. SoulRipper 10:18, August 28, 2010 (UTC) :::And I'm not going to delve too deeply into it, but suffice to say, your characterization of the "dark ages" is pretty appalling, and incredibly inaccurate. Remember that most witch-trials and burnings happened in the Renaissance and Enlightenment periods, as a result of the new-found "sciences" of demonology and witchcraft detection. In contrast, the High Middle Ages (scornfully referred to by some as the "Dark Ages") was a period of great learning in the western world, when the stagnation caused by the corpulent and bloated corpse that the Roman Empire had become was disposed of, and after the somewhat extended and nasty barbarian period (and, btw, much of the credit for eliminating the barbarian hordes, allowing for learning, goes to Christianity, especially in regards to the cessation of Viking raids). It also saw the melding of Eastern and Western philosophy, combined with a rediscovery of ancient Greek knowledge. Don't be too quick to dismiss that period as the "Dark Age", based on misconceptions about witch-craft and the big, bad church. Sorry to go off topic, it's just that mis-characterizations of history like that kind of get me all worked up. SpartHawg948 12:05, August 28, 2010 (UTC) :::You're right, I completely agree with you but I misswrote 1000 years because I confused the dark ages with the middle ages (the names, my mind does s--t sometimes). I had to wright middle ages. Anyway for me dark ages include everything from the fall of the Roman empire till a bit before the industrial revolution. Im not talking about when or why happened . The point is that it happened and draged humanity back. You know about the "mechanism of Antykithera"? The first computer in human history. It was build around 150–100 BC. It was some sort of a planet-stars course calculator. If the dark ages had not happened, we would be at space some hundred years erlier. Also sorry for being of topic. :::Ps. If you ask me, we still live in a dark age but thats another topic for a loooooooooooooooooooong conversation. SoulRipper 17:00, August 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::Again though, you did talk about when and why, and your why was pretty offbase. And I was just about to launch into another tirade, but that would just get us even more offbase! :P But yeah, go back and look at actual events, and you'll note that science actually bloomed during the "Dark Ages", particularly in the West. Apparently religion didn't keep the West from being more technologically advanced than anyone else. ::::So yeah, let's see about finding that topic, shall we? :) I'm still not sure. The hanar claim the Protheans taught them language and civiliation, not that they pushed them a bit evolutionarily and helped them clear some communication hurdles. It seems to me that these claims are more than likely the "big stupid jellyfish" (to quote Commander Shepard) version of most early human religion (take the Ancient Greeks, for example), in which the gods came down, walked among them, and taught them things. Like, to use your earlier example, Prometheus giving them fire. It didn't really happen, but they claimed it did, and often times believed it. The hanar case seems to me to be another example of this. ::::As for the claim of Protheans closely observing humans, please know that this claim has come under a bit of fire lately. After all, this happened before the Protheans were extinct (presumably), meaning 50,000+ years ago. The only problem is that the vision depicts Cro-Magnon man, and the Cro-Magnons didn't appear until approximately 35,000 years ago. In military parlance, D+ 15000 (D here being the Prothean extinction). So three competing theories have arisen: 1) The developers are wrong, and said Cro-Magnon when they meant something else. (Possible, but not devconfirmed either way, as such, no way to verify) 2) It wasn't the Protheans. It was actually the Reapers and/or the Collectors, likely as part of keeping tabs on sentient races. (The only issue here is that the records were accessed using a Prothean device, which could be explained now that we know more about the Collectors) 3) It's some sort of automated function, carried out by drones. (But in this case, why no other sightings of it?) I suppose you could also say there's a fourth, namely that modern archaeological data is wrong, and the Cro-Magnon actually developed early enough to interact with Protheans. Again though my question is, if this were the case, wouldn't you expect the Reapers to crush this early human society almost as an aside while clearing the Protheans out of the Sol system? And there are my issues. I know you were looking to avoid another "loooooooooooooooooooong conversation", well... too bad! (At least this one is topical! :P ) SpartHawg948 20:31, August 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::What I think is that you cant teach a gorilla to speak a human language. Its just impossible because his neck and chin structure is very different from humans. Now the hanar propably dont talk in prothean but if hanar couldnt speak and they were as the monkeys are compared to humans in the terms of communication and language use, I think that altering a bit the dna to fasten a little the evolution so the anatomy of hanar change and then be able to actually use a language it can make some sense. You know, the hanar "lost link". I think that the early human religion is correct, but in greek mythology when the gods came down from the sky they united with the humans (gaia-uranus) and created hybrids, cyclops, titans etc (propably failed experiments). Also Prometheus didnt gave only fire but also knowlegde and that makes me think that the name prothean cames from PRO-me-THEAN as I said erlier. ::::Maybe Shepard was wrong and It wasnt a Cro-Magnon but a Neandertal or a pro-Cro-Magnon. On the other hand the vision on Eletania talks about the "strange creature" making noise which makes me think that it was a machine that the primitive human encountered. Maybe it was drones. That could mean that even after the extinction of the protheans, the process of uplifting the Neandertal to Cro-Magnon was continuing. Maybe the Reapers knowing that protheans were uplifting humans (and maybe other races) used that so they wont wait so long because with the protheans they may have waited for millions of years and with the current races they have waited just 50.000 years. I say that you see, prothean ruins are found (mostly) where advanced races are (asari, humans, turians, hanar etc). The reapers propably left them there to be found. ::::Modern archeological data wrong? Does BioWare know something that the scientists dont? :P Ok, siriously, we know that Cro-Magnon appeared on earth before 35.000 years because thats the oldest Cro-Magnon skeleton (and as wikipedia says: The earliest known remains of Cro-Magnon-like humans are radiometrically dated to 35,000 years before present.) Maybe some day someone will find a Cro-Magnon skeleton dated back to 60.000 or 70.000 years (which I doubt but anyway). Who knows whats the future...SoulRipper 11:36, August 29, 2010 (UTC) Proof of Pillar of Autumn Okay people, I know I'm a bit late but I have found clear proof of the Pillar of Autumn. Its appears not once but twice in the Suicide Mission. During the fly in but also upon leaving the UNSC Pillar of Autumn can be clearly seen beside the collector base in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5fj0xvMCJg&feature=youtube_gdata_player Go to 03:10 to around 03:14 beside the Collector phase it is fully in colour. It appears to be approaching before being engulfed in flames and exploding. Its shape is clearly defined. EdwardChap (talk) 20:44, May 18, 2013 (UTC)